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Episode Summary

In this insightful episode of Marketing for What Matters, host Jason Miller sits down with Kelcie Ottoes, a sustainable copywriter making waves in the sustainability space. Kelcie shares her journey from feeling unfulfilled in a tech job to becoming a leading voice in sustainable copywriting. She offers valuable insights into the importance of aligning professional work with personal values and the power of storytelling in marketing. The episode dives into Kelcie’s unique approach to copywriting for sustainable brands, discussing her process, the significance of understanding the audience, and how to overcome common challenges in the industry.

Kelcie also highlights some of her favorite projects and clients, such as Blocktree and Pila, and shares practical advice for brands looking to communicate their sustainability initiatives effectively. This episode is packed with actionable tips for copywriters, marketers, and business owners committed to making a positive impact.

Key Takeaways

  • Aligning Passion and Profession: Kelcie emphasizes the importance of finding fulfillment by aligning professional work with personal values.
    Power of Storytelling: Effective storytelling in marketing can drive significant change by emotionally connecting with audiences and promoting sustainable practices.
  • Understanding the Audience: Conducting thorough audience research, including interviews, product reviews, and utilizing tools like ChatGPT, is crucial for crafting relevant and impactful copy.
  • Transparency in Sustainability: Brands should embrace transparency and share their sustainability journeys, including setbacks and learning experiences, to build trust and authenticity.
  • High-Impact Marketing Components: Essential marketing components for sustainable brands include a comprehensive website, email sequences, case studies, and a focused social media strategy.
  • Collaborative Spirit: The sustainability sector thrives on collaboration and sharing knowledge, which helps uplift all stakeholders involved.

Action Items

  1. Subscribe: Subscribe to “Marketing for What Matters” for more episodes on sustainability and marketing.
  2. Connect with Kelcie Ottoes: Follow Kelcie on LinkedIn or visit her website at Kelcie Ottoes Copywriting for sustainable copywriting services.
  3. Engage with Us: If you have feedback, suggestions, or want to recommend a guest, email us at [email protected].
  4. Support Sustainability: Learn more about One Tree Planted and consider how you can contribute to environmental efforts in your community.
  5. Share the Podcast: Help spread the word about “Marketing for What Matters” by sharing this episode with friends and colleagues.

View Transcript

Peaceful JAM (00:00.406)
Hello, welcome to the Marketing for What Matters podcast. I’m Jason Miller or Peaceful Jam, depending on where we’ve been in life. And I have a very special guest today, Kelcie Ottoes sustainable copywriter, who you can’t be on LinkedIn in the sustainability space and not notice Kelcie’s presence. She is an amazing copywriter, as well as a gifted social media content creator and networker.

And I’m really excited to have you on today, Kelcie. I want to dive in and hear about your background and how you got into copywriting for sustainable brands. But before we do, I’d love to just set an intention for this episode. So for those of you who are listening, have a direction. And we ourselves as communicators kind of set a compass for what we’re trying to accomplish here in our time today.

So I don’t know if anything comes right off for you, Kelcie. I’ll let you go first though.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:05.408)
Yeah. Hi everybody. Thanks so much for having me. I’m super excited to be here. Um, I think the thing that immediately came to mind when you said that is just that, uh, I hope that we create or my intention is to create content that is helpful that brands can take away some actionable items after this podcast and not feel like, dang, what did I just do with the last hour of my life? That, that you’ll be scrambling to write some stuff down that you will

feel a little bit more rejuvenated in your brand. So go grab the pen and piece of paper or your phone to take some notes and keep it close because you’re gonna need it.

Peaceful JAM (01:45.142)
Yeah, and for those of you commuting, please don’t. And just come back to the episode and listen to the transcripts. We’d be happy to have you be safe and keep your life sustainable. And I’ll just set my intention really quickly. My dream for this podcast is that other copywriters and talented people like you, Kelcie, listen to this episode and realize that it is possible to marry

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:48.347)

Peaceful JAM (02:15.094)
your professional life with your, you know, with meaningful work. And that if I’m reading the tea leaves of your presence in social media and the conversations we’ve had off offline, I consider you a very successful copywriter who’s doing every project has gone through the filter of does this fulfill me, does this align with my passions and purpose? And so I’m excited for.

those who are just like, oh, I’m writing copy for XYZ corporation. And I just wish this stuff mattered to me. I’m hoping that you’ll walk away from this episode with tools to help build your brand, like Kelcie said, and also inspiration. So without further adieu, Kelcie, I’d love to hear how you got into copywriting and specifically what inspired you to really

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (02:54.436)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (03:02.645)
Yeah, absolutely.

Peaceful JAM (03:14.07)
focus on the sustainable brands niche.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (03:17.652)
Yeah, absolutely. So the journey starts way before this, but where I like to think the copywriting journey in the Spark Notes version starts, is around 2020, I was working at a tech company and I was just feeling really unfulfilled. I was having a lot of conversations with my husband of like, what could I be doing that would be more? And he was pushing back of like, well, where could you volunteer? Like, why does it have to be?

be your job, which are really good questions to ask yourself too, because not everybody necessarily needs to make a big leap like I did. And there are ways that you can make a big impact in your life, even if it’s not within your nine to five. But the work that I was doing just wasn’t really lighting a spark in me. I wasn’t super excited about it. And around the same time, two other things happened that I think were the catalyst for change here.

there were rampant wildfires all across the country and all of the wildfires converged right over the top of Denver, Colorado, which is where I was living at the time. And so our air quality was worse than major metropolitan cities like Shanghai, which was a really scary situation to be in. We were seeing the exact effects of climate change in a really impactful way. And Colorado in the summer, we wanna be outside.

We want to be doing things like riding bikes, hiking, taking our dogs out. And a lot of times we couldn’t because the air quality was so bad. And that was a really scary thought. Um, and at the same time, my, my now husband and I were talking about getting married and planning our future. We were engaged, um, and this involved kids. And so there was a mix too of feeling unfulfilled of seeing climate change happen. And also thinking about if I’m going to bring kids into the world, have I done enough, am I doing enough? Could I be doing more?

Um, and, and ultimately it’s not just about my kids. Every human being deserves a safe and healthy planet to live on. Um, but a friend recommended a copywriting course to me called write your way to freedom by Sarah Turner. And, um, within that copywriting course, Sarah does a really amazing job of not giving you her specific like steps to success, but really challenging you to what does successful look like for you when it comes to building your business. And so I was able to

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (05:35.948)
build a business that was really specifically focused on sustainability and working with sustainable brands. And that’s essentially like where the journey started. It was from all of these things coming together at once, from feeling unfulfilled to wanting to do more for the planet and seeing the direct impact of climate change.

Peaceful JAM (05:56.746)
I love that story. I love the journey. I’m going to start asking that question more often because I really love hearing about people’s journeys into this, into this niche. It’s really like going back to that inspiring other creators. And I can relate so much with, with what you said about, you know, being surrounded by smoke and, and thinking about our kids’ futures and realizing that we can’t waste our time. We can’t be wasting our talents, time and energy.

Um, with stuff that just doesn’t help solve some of these problems and raise awareness around some of these problems, not to mention provides solutions. Um, so definitely resonates. That’s probably why I felt such a gravitational pull to you on LinkedIn. I wanted to have a conversation with you. What were some of the early, um, I’d like to uncover like a couple of the brands you’ve worked with and some of the successes you’ve created there. And.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (06:35.523)

Peaceful JAM (06:55.294)
And also hear about maybe some of your early stage client work where you’re like, oh my gosh, I have found that alignment of what I care about in my craft.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (07:10.06)
Yeah. So, um, a couple of brands come to mind from the very beginning of my journey, um, that I would love to shout out too, because they’re just awesome. Um, the first one is, I think my first client ever was a client, um, called Blocktree. Uh, Henry Palmer is the CEO over there. Um, they basically are sustainable swaps for your home. Um, and getting to write for a Locktree who is not afraid to call out bad guys.

who doesn’t beat around the bush, who has this really punchy, fun, exciting brand, and working with someone like Henry, who is just a joy of a human being, I think was one of the first moments that I was like, this is really cool that like, I’m doing it. And then when we were working together, one of the first blogs that I worked on for him ended up being, it was one of Shopify’s like top 10, like highest trafficked blogs.

Um, and it was just really exciting to be like, Oh my gosh, like I did it. Like not only is it like a cool brand that I feel good about, but I did the copywriting piece of it too. Um, and so that was really fun. Uh, good with mountain time soap was another brand that I was just like, gosh, they’re just doing everything right. And not making a big deal of it and have always been doing everything right. And their soaps are phenomenal. I can’t recommend them enough. Um, just a little soap shop based out of golden Colorado, but

Peaceful JAM (08:25.222)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (08:36.408)
Composable packaging and so considerate about their ingredients and so transparent and just have always been doing the right way, aren’t doing it. It really bugs me when people are like, well, young people care about sustainability, so we’re going to start doing it. I’m like, you’re the problem. I know you’re trying to be a solution, but this also really bugs me. It’s a personal pet peeve. Um, but I think the moment where I feel like within that first year that I was like, wow, I made it and this is really cool is when I started working, um,

Peaceful JAM (08:52.386)
Right, right.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (09:05.812)
with the phone case company and compost company, or a composter creating company, Pila, which I think we’ll get to maybe a little bit later in this interview, but getting to work with them and seeing how innovative their brand was, I was like, this is how we change the world. This is a brand that wants to change the world and helping people understand this is how we change the world is a really, really cool feeling to be like, wow, I’m writing for a brand that will use this copy to change the world.

Peaceful JAM (09:36.958)
Yeah, I love you have such a powerful tool as a copywriter, you know, it’s, uh, and I’m, I’m kind of curious as to can dovetails into my question about what your process is, because there are copywriters who, um, who do a little bit of research and, you know, go find the material out on the web and then bring it into a blog or whatever. And then there’s like copywriters who are really like ideating. They’re coming up with.

almost like infusing a values system into the copywriting, especially when you think about websites copy. So what is your process like and how do you integrate the company’s DNA into the words that you’re placing into blogs, websites and beyond?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (10:26.72)
Yeah. And I think too, it’s a little bit different for every single project that you work on. Right? So if a brand comes to me and is like, Hey, we really want to increase our website traffic with blogs. Then that’s a really specific blog that I’m like, let’s go do some SEO keyword research. Let’s come up with some topics for your ideal client that are going to drive that relevant traffic to your website. Compared to we want to create blogs that are thought leadership.

that’s likely not going to rank for SEO. And that’s going to be a really different writing process. And so with the SEO content, I’m taking a look at what’s already been created. What do we need to do to rank competitively against what’s already been creative? How do we add new pieces to this based off of what this brand is doing specifically for SEO? Whereas on the other hand, if we’re doing a thought leadership blog post, just for example, I’m going to really be talking with my client one-on-one and being like,

like why are you special, what’s unique, what’s the hot take here to really dig into why this idea is so revolutionary and then likely helping them pushing it out across socials because that’s how you get traction with those blog posts. So the process for each copywriting process is very different just depending on like what your end outcome is.

Peaceful JAM (11:47.214)
Sure. And like most copywriters, I know work for Pustle Media and people we’ve worked with externally, there’s a great deal of research that you do in order to understand the person reading this material and consuming this material. We call it in marketing, climbing inside of your target audience’s minds and understanding what was keeping them up at night and what their aspirations are.

what moves them to take action, whatever that action is for a brand. So I’m kind of curious, how do you go about that process of understanding the audience to whom you’re speaking?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (12:32.588)
Yeah, definitely. So I think it depends too on how much like audience research my client has done to begin with. I’m always really curious. One thing that I regularly ask my clients is like, okay, like how did they find you and how do you know that? I, a lot of people will jump to conclusions and we’ll say things like, hey, we are like, our clients don’t have time to search for us online or my clients aren’t on that social platform.

And that when I ask how they know that they’re like, well, they’re just too busy. And I’m like, but we don’t know that. So getting to get on a call with those clients and get a really good understanding and doing that market research, especially if you’re a B2B organization, listen, you can’t spray and pray with like a $25,000 or more purchase. Like you have to really know your audience and.

Peaceful JAM (13:06.663)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (13:26.408)
make a really significant impact from the moment that you connect with them. You can’t hope that they’ll stumble upon an ad or a blog post that you create. It’s a lot more strategic. So really getting to interview them and hear what they say and then using those words is super impactful. The other thing that I think is super helpful, a couple of tools that I’ll use sometimes, it’s not like a guiding light, but sometimes if I’m not familiar with

an industry or something like that. I’ll just start with Chad’s ABT and be like, how does this person think, or what’s important to this person or what’s some questions that they would ask? And then I take some of those questions and I head over to Reddit and I see what are real people saying? What are the conversations that they’re having? How do farmers feel when they are told that they should no longer be tilling their field? Like what’s the emotional reaction that happens there? So I can write to that specific reaction and, and leveraging if I

don’t necessarily know the industry super well with like that real world, like here’s what people are actually saying, um, can be really helpful. And then also checking out if you have product reviews and like a B2C room that I’m like all up in those product reviews. Like I want to know exactly what people love, what people hate, who’s buying again and why, like that’s so, so helpful. So any information, you know, brands really hate to burden their clients and ask for information, but

Peaceful JAM (14:39.218)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (14:50.1)
Any information you can collect from someone just makes such a big difference in being able to find more people like them who will continue to purchase and support your brand.

Peaceful JAM (15:02.678)
Yeah, I’ll just add one thing to that. You spoke to the qualitative research and how brands sometimes have difficulties or challenges like thinking about asking and burdening their audience with surveys and so forth. But we have found that it’s Chachapiti is really useful for survey analysis, survey result analysis as well to lift out the themes. And, you know, cause a lot of it’s qualitative, you know, long paragraphs

sentences and so forth that would take for thousands of survey results. It takes a long time to sift through that and find like, what is the through line here that we need to, to really influence how we message. And, um, that’s just another way that AI has made marketing, uh, so much easier for us. Um, and I, I guess I should have asked early, like what, when you think about sustainable brands.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (15:41.901)

Peaceful JAM (15:58.698)
what brands have you have has that meant to you? Like you mentioned regenerative ag, you mentioned soap. I mean, let’s maybe just real briefly just describe the segments within the sustainability movements that you’ve found a lot of success with.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (16:15.304)
Yeah. So I think too, and this is for anybody who’s thinking about like, Oh, sustainability, like writing, that would be cool. My like big, big goal is to write myself out of a niche. So where everyone is practicing sustainability and it’s just common practice and it’s not really even a thing anymore. So sustainability can literally be anything, which was really hard at the beginning of my journey because I was pulled in so many different directions and which is where

I kind of ended up refining and finding this sweet spot in the B2B realm and specifically working with regenerative agriculture. So within the sustainability industry, you could be writing about anything from manufacturing and products to water to home blogs that talk about how to make daily living more sustainable. It’s just like to electric cars, to carbon offsetting, it’s really, really broad.

kind of following your gut or trying out a couple of different things and seeing like what’s the best fit for me is a really good place to start. My two sweet spots are in regenerative ag and eco-friendly construction for a couple of reasons. One, I was raised on a farm, so I feel like I have a little bit and not like an organic regenerative farm by any means.

But I do feel like it gives me a little bit more empathy for farmers and a little bit of better understanding of how they’re thinking of what they’re feeling. Um, and being able to write to like, it’s not your fault. Cause I think a lot of times we like to place a lot of blame on farmers. Um, but it’s not their fault. Like they’re using best practices that were ascribed to them and it’s not their fault that they followed the best practice and makes sense that they follow the best practice. So I think too.

being able to write to that has kind of been, and have empathy for that and no judgment to that, I think has kind of been a superpower for me in that niche. And then we actually just got done doing a major remodel over the last year of our like forever home. And so in the eco-friendly construction world, like.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (18:24.508)
I’m, I’m all about it. I’m in it. I lived it. I know exactly what like the person that you’re talking to is feeling or going through or like what those construction companies are looking for. Um, and just really kind of enjoy this space. And the, and the two reasons I think also that I, I picked those, this space is that, um, I wanted to be doing something that had a really big impact. And that’s not to say that like the soap companies I’ve worked for things like that haven’t had a big impact. But when I think about the fact that I can sell a couple of bars of soap, or I can like.

Peaceful JAM (18:27.598)
And that’s fine.

Peaceful JAM (18:35.822)
Thank you. Yeah.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (18:54.232)
help a farmer make a massive transition for thousands of acres. I want to help with that second part at this stage. And that’s again, not to say like, if everybody starts using more sustainable soap throughout their homes, and obviously we’re making a really big impact. It’s just a bigger opportunity to make a big impact with one sale. And I think that was the thing that excited me about the B2B space.

Peaceful JAM (19:16.17)
Yeah, yeah, I totally hear that. So that’s useful. So let’s imagine, because we’ve worked in the regenerative ag space too, so maybe we can hover on that one real quick. I would love to imagine, so imagine there’s a regenerative or a farm that’s, you know, they just watch common ground or kiss the ground or whatever. They’re like, okay, what is this regenerative ag stuff and soil regeneration and.

bio-complete compost and all this stuff. What is that and where do I learn more? So they start doing a little bit of research. Now you’re working with a school that teaches it, right? So imagine that school comes to you and says, hey, we need some advice on how to capture attention and take people through the funnel of awareness to solution.

what are the components that school, that regenerative ag oriented school needs to have in their, on their website and beyond in order to like really, yeah, use copy in all the different mediums and formats that consumers enjoy to make an impact for their business.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (20:29.432)
Yeah. So, um, I think the first thing that I would be interested in is just, um, what are you, what information are you providing offline that they’re paying for that they can’t find for free online? And why would they trust you more than like, I mean, every major educational institution?

is like writing articles about regenerative agriculture at this point. And so what makes you a better fit? And that would be the first thing that I would want to know is like, what is your X factor? Why are you special? Like this is already a pretty saturated market. So let’s get into like how you’re unique and different. A brand that I would be really excited about is a brand that was doing something around like, like we have government incentives to help people.

make these changes. And so the cost is not specifically falling just on farmers. But when it comes to the marketing that they have, I think like having a really clear scope of what’s for free online and then what do we keep behind a gated and why do we do that? Or is our one on one support going to their farm, helping them make some of these changes?

Is that the component that is not free that ends up being paid for that? We figure out some way to help them make those adoptions. And I think the biggest thing that you can do for farmers specifically is, and this is really big in sustainability right now that it’s is a hurdle that I don’t think a lot of sustainable businesses are doing well is we’re scared to be transparent, like we’re really scared to take pictures along the way. We’re scared to talk about what’s happening. We’re scared.

to mention any setbacks in our sustainability goals. And it’s kind of a shame because that’s like the human experience. Like when you think of the hero’s journey, like he doesn’t catch the bad guy the first time he runs into the bad guy. Like it takes time and people accept that and know that. And yet sustainable brands are like, well, we don’t wanna put this goal out there because we don’t want people to think like, oh, they didn’t make it.

Peaceful JAM (22:21.924)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (22:41.98)
I would be so much more impressed with a brand that was honest and upfront and transparent and was like, here’s the reasons why we didn’t and here’s how we’re going to fix it. And here’s what we learned. And here’s what other brands should do is way, way cooler to the folks who are interested because in sustainability and if those are your main, the people that are going to buy from you, you have to create that level of transparency. And so with farmers too, they want to know if I’m going to implement no-till.

How long is it really gonna take? And like, show me year over year and show me year over year on a farm that’s like mine and let me talk to that farmer. And so gathering those testimonials, creating those case studies, having those farmers on your podcast or your webinars or interviewing them on YouTube, whatever that looks like. Like you have to have real farmers who other farmers can connect with. They need to be able to see themselves and say, wow, this is the transformational gate if I go through this school.

Peaceful JAM (23:28.863)
Thank you.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (23:39.712)
And I know this because Herb is also a farmer, a pea farmer in Atlanta. And I do, I grow the same crop in, you know, California and it’s going to be fine. And I can just follow his model. And this is what I can expect to happen. And I can ask questions of him and engage with it if it doesn’t work out. And so creating those like community aspects, I think are really important too. Um, but just really trying to build on that transparency.

from a sustainable business standpoint is so important and especially within the regenerative ag space. If you don’t know your farmers, if you’re not out on their farms, if your hands aren’t dirty, you’re not gonna sell to anybody.

Peaceful JAM (24:18.986)
Yeah, I’m so glad you touched on that. I feel like people separate the principles that work in human relationships, person to person relationships that are like divided from corporate and audience, corporate audiences. It’s like, over here, you know, in the human to human, of course we want someone who’s, we want friends and connection with people who are willing to drop the guards in the veneer and be real.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (24:32.396)

Peaceful JAM (24:47.09)
and transparent and like, I’m flawed and I’m struggling with this thing. But over here in corporate, it’s buttoned up tight, and we’re nothing wrong over here. You know, it’s like, yeah, I wish more. I hope a lot of corporations are listening to this. Because more and more, our social media team, for instance, just like, yeah, you, you can’t do that stuff anymore and try to get away with it. Not with the younger generations, you know, they

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (24:57.824)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Peaceful JAM (25:17.346)
They don’t want the veneer and they can sniff it out a mile away. Um, if you’re not playing authentic.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (25:21.408)
Yeah. And a lot of people like to say, and this is a big shift that I think needs to happen too. A lot of people like to say that like, we just don’t have the attention span for it anymore. Like people don’t have the attention span and that’s not it. People have a way better filter than they used to have. And so if your brand doesn’t connect, isn’t personalized, doesn’t resonate, they’re on to the next video. They’re done. You’ve got 10 seconds to really capture their attention.

And, but once you do, like, this is also the generations that will like binge an entire season of a show on Netflix. Like once you have their attention, you really have it. The things they care about, they really care about. So stop saying that, well, we can’t just, you know, it’s their attention span. Nobody wants to deal with blah, blah. That’s not the case. Like the, the attention span is there. You’re just not getting past the filters.

Peaceful JAM (26:10.194)
You know how many two hour podcasts are out there on YouTube that people are just devouring like long form content still plenty of play as long as people feel like you’re being honest and delivering good content, of course. Yeah, so just come back to that components piece when you’re working with a brand and you’re sort of looking across what they have on their site and so forth what

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (26:16.204)


Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (26:25.644)
Yeah, adding value to their life.

Peaceful JAM (26:37.558)
What do you kind of look as checkpoints? I heard case studies, I heard testimonials. I think you were implying some lead magnets or something that you’re imparting in exchange for an email address at the top of the funnel. Are there any other components that you help these brands think through and help craft?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (26:56.436)
Yeah, definitely. So I think the most basic smartest starting point, if you can invest in it, like a website comes first, but like if you really want to do this right, you need a voice guide, like you need something that says like, or a brand guide, or like really outline like, this is who we are, this is how we show up. This is why we do it this way. This is the things that clients have said that inform us.

So we take that marketing guide or the messaging guide that we talked about earlier, and then we create this brand guide from it, essentially that says, this is the colors that we use, the fonts. Here’s how we show up. Here’s the things you say. Here’s emojis we do use. Here’s emojis we don’t use. It’s such a solid foundation and truly a compass for your brand for years to come. I really, really encourage every brand to consider investing in one of these because it’ll make a big difference no matter who you work with. And then from there,

Peaceful JAM (27:35.766)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (27:49.848)
Um, obviously a website, like we all need it. You just have to have it. If you don’t have a website at this point, I’m a little skeptical that you even actually exist. Um, Email sequences are another one that everybody needs. It kills me when a brand doesn’t have email. Like if you’re going to ask people to sign up for your newsletter and then not have a custom tailored welcome sequence. Why, why would you do that to them? Why would you do that? Don’t do that to them.

Peaceful JAM (28:15.403)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (28:16.152)
Write that down if you’re not driving. That’s something that you need to do next. If you have a website and you have aspirations of a newsletter, just go ahead and create a welcome sequence. It’s like one of the best ways to connect with people off the beginning and like one of the easiest like sales pieces to have like an abandoned cart. Like please just like two emails, hire somebody to do it. Like don’t skip this step. And then I think ads are another component after that. If you have the money for it that…

we use across the aisle for B2B and B2C. For B2B specifically though, the things that you tend to need are blogs, case studies, white papers, and sales pages. And I also think you only need to invest in the sales platforms where you know, or the social media platforms where you know your ideal clients are. There is no reason to spread yourself so thin when social requires so much of you across every platform.

only to have those assets disappear. Like all of that effort to go into creating all this content and then have it disappear. And, and don’t just shout into the void. Like nobody’s going to follow you if you just shout into the void. And if you don’t engage with your audience, so, so just don’t, don’t do that for all of us. Just save yourself some time and don’t post X. It’ll be fine. It’s yeah. Yeah. It just, I’m like,

Peaceful JAM (29:33.788)
What’s your feelings on quote cards, Kelcie?

Are you strong opinions there?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (29:42.544)
There’s just so many brands that just like clearly are posting just to say that they’re posting there. And I’m like, why though? Like you could just have a really great LinkedIn or just a really great Instagram and then funnel everybody else to your email list. That way, when the algorithm inevitably changed and screws you over, you can still have contact with all the people who care about you most. Um, it just doesn’t make sense to me. It does not make sense to me. And then on a B2C side,

I think social is a much more important investment because the masses are on social media. That’s like we’re there for now. There might be a shift one day, but for now everybody’s on social. But you don’t need to invest in like the case studies or white papers and you only need blogs if you’re really going to sell a product that’s like a hundred dollars or more. Like it’s not really going to be the best bang for your buck to really get a good blog writer to come in to write blogs for you to then maybe sell like, like I said, like a bar soap from it, right?

That’s not the ROI that you need there. And you’re probably better off using that money to run ads rather than using that money to try and build your SEO until you’re, you know, a larger brand that’s offering like multiple products. And then at that point you can, if purchase orders are 50 to a hundred dollars, then maybe it makes sense to get a blog writer involved. Um, but, but they’re a little bit of a different strategy. It’s not the same. It’s you shouldn’t be doing like a beat. If you have like.

Peaceful JAM (31:01.151)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (31:08.716)
Two different wings of your business, that’s B2C and B2B, they require different strategies.

Peaceful JAM (31:14.63)
I feel like we could have another episode just diving into the distinctions there and how you think about messaging for each. But I don’t know if everybody’s ready for our two hour podcast. So let’s. Yeah. I would love to know how you unearth how you unearth brands stories, storytelling parts.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (31:29.15)
Well buckle up, we’re doing it. You’re here.

Just kidding.

Peaceful JAM (31:43.79)
power of storytelling for a business that you’re working with. Just knowing that how potent that is as a messaging tool. So yeah, I’d love to hear like, what’s your process there for developing stories?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (31:59.924)
Yeah. So, um, I think it depends a lot of times, a lot of the brands that I work with are a little bit more established and come with their stories. And normally their stories are pretty good. I think Pila is a great example of that. If you’re not familiar with Pila, they make, um, compostable phone cases, watch bands, a bunch of different other home items, but they also launched, um, an at home composter that will compost their products within 24 to 48 hours.

It’s ideal for f-

Peaceful JAM (32:30.546)
And just in that list, you’ve solved two or three of my burning questions about how do I replace my phone? Like when I get a new phone, how do I get the phone case that’s not just using more petroleum and composting? Thank you for PILA.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (32:47.616)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s amazing. And yeah, it’s I love their marketing and their branding and their messaging. They’re really big on like, do you need a Lomi and the checklist is like, do you have chickens, you probably don’t need a Lomi because that’s more sustainable than a Lomi is like, do you have a composting facility within like X distance of your house, you probably don’t need a Lomi because that’s more sustainable to like support x, y, z. And yeah.

Peaceful JAM (33:13.87)
of like talking to people consumers out of their products where yeah

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (33:17.748)
Right. But they’re like, if you’re in an apartment and you don’t have any other way to compost, then like, this is the composter for you. Like this makes sense. And also if you’re someone who’s going to buy a lot of our products or use a lot of our products, which I believe that they are their products already are backyard compostable, if I’m remembering right. Um, but they, um, they will also say like, if you’re going to use a lot of our products, like you, you also might want the Lomi because you can compost them in there.

And then you can just add that to your plants or to your garden or donate it to a garden, take it to a local park that might need it. And then they list like a ton of different options of what to do with that. But that’s a great story. Like they’re full circle, like sustainable home items that they’re like, yeah, we recognize that like the people were still having to throw our phone cases away so we fixed it. And that’s so cool to me and it will never stop being cool to me.

Um, so when they come with a great story like that, that makes it easier. And it’s just more about what are the different angles to this story to help more people get involved and help more people see how cool it is and geek out about it and also a lot of times it’s taking, I, when I was in college, I remember I had, uh, someone who was, um, in, in a class with me, give a presentation about the gap between the science community and the general public. And why this is this gap, this inability to communicate with one another.

is why the science community isn’t more successful at getting anything to go through. And so I often will look at that and say, where are the gaps? Where are we losing people? Because I also know as a copywriter that the majority of the population in the United States reads at a sixth grade reading level. So how do we take this really high level scientific information and make it really accessible for our general audience or specifically for who your audience is? Sometimes it’s just taking that story and translating it in a way

where it will resonate more with the individuals that you’re trying to attract. If you don’t have that story outlined though, which happens a lot, I like to just sit down with the brand founders and really dig in, I call it brand therapy, and we really just dig into why. Like, why did you start this business? Why do you care? What are the initiatives that you care about? What makes you different? And then from there, like building that story from a really intensive.

Peaceful JAM (35:16.947)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (35:40.248)
conversation about their life and why it’s important to them.

Peaceful JAM (35:43.614)
of your process, you probably send him a Simon Sinek keynote, TED talk or something, watch this first, and then we’re gonna come we’re gonna carry on right up right from there. Now that you’re inspired to find your why. I love that, Kelcie, that’s yeah, you’re very thorough. And I thought that was a really important insight about it’s copywriting isn’t about being fancy. It’s about being heard and understood. And to realize that

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (35:49.156)
I’m gonna go to bed.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (35:55.608)

Peaceful JAM (36:13.47)
Americans are at a sixth grade reading level on average. A lot of, it seems like a lot of your process is to make this digestible, you know? So I’m curious when you’re working with organizations that just don’t have big sprawling budgets, what if they came to you and said, look, I got X thousand dollars and that’s it, but I really wanna know what is the highest impact

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (36:22.968)

Peaceful JAM (36:43.43)
writing you can do for us. Of course you’re going to go look and see what’s missing but what do you find you’re usually gravitating to as a reply?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (36:51.164)
Yeah, yeah. So first I think that there’s an element. Look for a copywriter that also is offering some sort of strategy component. Because like you just said, you’re going to go look and you’re going to see what’s missing. But you also like, if you can’t pay someone to do a full website rewrite for you, what you can do is you can get a really great copywriter to give you a website audit and give you a starting place for you to be able to take…

Peaceful JAM (37:00.859)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (37:18.08)
what they would do and run with it. And it won’t be the same and it won’t be as good and that’s fine, but at least you’ll have a more robust offering essentially, or a more robust like website copy based off of the fact that someone who is an expert was able to take a look and be like, you’re missing this, or there’s too many headers up at the top and I’m overwhelmed and navigating your sites a lot. Like look for those strategy components first.

And then you get a copywriter who’s able to take a look at those strategy components will then be able to help you say like, these are the high level things that I think that you should do. These are the low level things. Here’s what we can do with that budget. Um, but starting with that strategy is so key. Um, especially if you come to a copywriter and you’re like, I just need this and they don’t take a look at anything else and they just deliver the thing. And that’s fine. A lot of copywriters will do that, but finding someone that you can partner with, like.

All of us that are in sustainability want you to be successful. We like want to help you. We recognize that like we’re a bridge between the work that you’re doing and the general population and. The work that you’re doing is integral for saving our planet. So maybe we’re a little bit more bleeding hearts and willing to help you out a little bit more, especially if you’re what you’re doing is super cool, super unique, really over the top, like, Oh, you’ll be surprised how many copywriters will be like.

it’s fine let’s just do it and then we’ll see what happens and then we can go from there.

Peaceful JAM (38:44.222)
Yeah, yeah. You’re you’re 15 minute discovery, free discovery call turns out to be more like 75 because you’re just like, I just want you to be successful. You can make a difference on the planet, you know. Yeah, I, I think I don’t know if you if you work in this strategic place for brands. But I know in all the conversations I’ve had with brands who are really invested in

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (38:55.274)
Yes! Truly!


Peaceful JAM (39:14.402)
sustainable packaging and ingredients and fair trade and like really thinking broadly about the sustainability question with their products. It’s sometimes comes with a really significant cost to make that product right like when you go that you just imagine the consumers like the Whole Foods Whole Paycheck problem where yeah like all these products are like

ingredients and high quality and on and on and on thinking about the planet and It’s like, you know 50% more expensive than The plant pantry horse or Safeway or whatever your local grocer is so I Again, this is more of a B2C thing. But how if you were advising a B2C brand, how would you recommend? overcoming that price objection that

is not necessarily inherent with sustainability brands, but it seems to be more tied to it.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (40:20.876)
This is the million dollar question, right? If any of us had this figured out, we’d be making a lot of money. I think my two biggest thoughts here in helping overcome some of this, and this is less applicable in the food space and I recognize that, but I think the best thing that brands are doing right now to help overcome that.

Peaceful JAM (40:23.298)
Right, right. Yeah. Shifting, shifting the planet’s attitudes and behavioral tendencies to find the cheapest.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (40:49.572)
hurdle is doing some sort of buyback program for different items that they have, whether that’s car seats or jackets or skis or whatever that product is that still kind of adheres to all of those like made the right way, by the right people to support their communities and also at cost 50% more.

those buyback programs I think do make a big difference in someone being like, well, it’s more expensive, but I know that I’m gonna get X amount back when I need to trade it in, or when I know I’m not gonna use it anymore, or, you know, and they get to feel good about the fact that they’re not contributing to the overall general waste. Within this food sphere, it’s really hard, because ultimately like, people are kind of bleeding right now. Like it’s a hard, hard market to go grocery shopping in.

Frankly, and helping them overcome that it’s, I think ultimately the people who are always going to buy your product

still will like regardless of what you do and they just get to feel a little bit better and a little bit less guilty about the price tag because they’re like, well, but I did the right thing today. The only other thing that you can maybe do is like hope that’s like some kind of viral trend comes your way that makes your product a really unique selling point that people are willing to put to the top of their list to essentially invest in to be a part.

of some sort of trend or exciting thing. Um, but it’s really hard out there. It’s really hard out there for grocery shopping. It’s expensive.

Peaceful JAM (42:30.634)
Yeah, yeah. No, I’m really glad you brought up the circular economy, kind of the recycling products and the buyback programs that the Patagonia is and other brands that are really committed to sustainability and leading the way in that have developed and demonstrated. And yeah, I mean, I think it’s one thing to have a headline on your website that says we’re in business.

to save the planet, it’s another thing to go out and demonstrate it over and over and over and over again at the cost of shareholders, profitability and bank accounts. So it does go well beyond copywriting, right? And to how do you shift your entire business model into this, into the sustainability movement.

Any other further, any final thoughts on that before we move on to the to the next section? Yeah.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (43:35.38)
No, no, it’s a tough problem and I wish I had more to provide to help, but if your product’s expensive it’s just expensive.

Peaceful JAM (43:41.782)
I would love to know, I just mentioned Paragonia because they were like my shining business star, if you will. I’d love to work with them and I’d love to be them, you know, at Peaceful Media. And I’m kind of curious when you’re looking across the landscape, which brands are really doing sustainability communications well?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (44:06.072)
Yeah, yeah. So a couple come to mind in the B2B.

Peaceful JAM (44:10.73)
Like, well, just go to my portfolio. That’s basically all my clients. Yeah.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (44:15.912)
Hi, have you met my clients? No, no. Some other folks that I think are doing a really great job that aren’t on my client roster, but if you hear this, I would love for you to be, let’s have a conversation. Incentifined I think is doing a really amazing job with their business model. They help developers, property owners, and tenants find money for their real estate and home improvement projects.

Peaceful JAM (44:27.426)
No, we don’t find party.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (44:43.98)
sustainable incentives to help people make like sustainable swaps, whether you have like a massive apartment complex or whether you are just an individual homeowner, but they released some really interesting case studies that I think they have a lot of opportunities on. Don’t get me wrong, but I think those case studies are so pivotal that they’re like really regularly pushing those out and showing how people have used their platform to find incentives to make these changes and the money.

the monetary savings they’ve been able to make. And I just think that’s so smart. Like that’s a great use of a case study. And it’s so, so smart.

Peaceful JAM (45:20.602)
Yeah, maybe I could double click on that real quick. Because I think of case studies sometimes as one and done. They’re sitting on a website somewhere in a YouTube channel, if they’re video based case study. What are other ways that you’ve seen brands successfully leverage that kernel of a case study into broader communications? And Margaret.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (45:42.816)
Yeah, your case study is evergreen content and should never die. That’s a good case study. Do not let it die. That’s a mistake. Um, when you have a little bit of a slump in your marketing, that’s a great time to go back through and be like, okay, who haven’t we talked about in a while? And keeping in mind, like your email is gross. Your social following grows, like reshare those videos, resend that information back out to your email list. Um,

you should be circling back and say, what haven’t we talked about in a while? And what’s the new angle on it? Or when like news stories break or things like that, specifically around for, I think, a great example in the incentivize case is when it is fire season and they’re breaking out all over the place talking about, you know, different businesses that have found incentives to make their buildings more fire resistant and how that’s maybe impacted different communities.

Like there’s always an opportunity and you should have your case logs really well organized to be able to go back and say like, okay, like how do we share this now and what makes this relevant? And even following up with those folks that you did those case studies with and being like, Hey, this is happening now. Would you be willing to have like a quick quote about how you’re feeling? Like knowing that you’ve made this investment or knowing that we’ve worked together on this just as like another relevant piece. So.

Don’t let your case studies die. They don’t just live on your website. They should be used in your social media. Like year over year over year over year and same with your email list. Like there’s no reason those should die.

Peaceful JAM (47:14.978)
Yeah, and plus there’s always new mediums and even dimensions of, say, if you have a case study that’s sitting in a PDF or on your website only, you can think about all the different platforms and different ways you can chop that up so that they’re applicable to a tick tock, you know, you have, or a real Instagram, you only have two minutes to get that point across what’s how do you take that lengthy case study and break it up into bite slice, bite size slices?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (47:33.409)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (47:37.411)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (47:44.369)
or using like a LinkedIn blog to link back to it, writing about something relevant that’s happening, there’s tons of options.

Peaceful JAM (47:48.502)
A, seriously, if you’re B2B, like go watch Kelcie on LinkedIn. It’s really good. Um, yeah. Um, I don’t think you do link. You don’t like to do LinkedIn management as a service. Do you anymore? Do you for brands?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (47:56.008)
You’re so sweet. Thank you.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (48:05.216)
Um, for the right brand, I would consider it. It’s really how cool is your brand? And then we can talk about it. It’s kind of my scope widens with the cooler the stuff is that you’re doing and the more excited.

Peaceful JAM (48:09.757)

Peaceful JAM (48:18.11)
Amen. What just so that’s a brand that’s doing really well. Maybe not, you know, pinpointing a certain brand that’s being challenged, but just broadly speaking, what are the main challenges that you find when you’re starting to talk with brands when it comes to like communicating out a sustainability driven mission?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (48:40.992)
Yeah. Um, if you don’t mind actually, do you care if I share one other brand that I think is doing a great job on the B2C side? Cause I just think they’re so different. Yeah. Okay. And then we’ll circle back to that question. Um, the other business that I really want to call out that I think is doing an awesome job on Instagram, there is an individual named Daryl who does yard farmer.co. She is a sustainable landscape designer in Salt Lake city. And she does, if you were like, I don’t know how to engage with my audience.

Peaceful JAM (48:46.611)
Oh, heck yeah, dude. Let’s go.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (49:10.488)
She does such a good job of engaging with her audience. So please go and check her profile out. She does such an awesome job. People will ask questions. She’ll reshare the questions in a new video and we’ll talk it through. She’s really smart at using the stuff that people are asking and asking for more of to help her create more and more content. She’s hopping on different viral trends where people are saying, do rake the leaves.

Peaceful JAM (49:32.575)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (49:40.132)
Don’t rank the leaves, do leave the Danny lines. Don’t leave the Danny lines. And we’ll like, gets really specific too. It’s not trying to be like a master of all. She’s like, Hey folks in Utah, here’s what we’re doing. And here’s why. And here’s why you don’t listen to people on the East coast, because here’s how their ecosystem is different. And here’s why they should do that. And here’s why we don’t do that. And just does a really good job of speaking really specifically to her audience. And I just, yeah, yardfarmer.co.

Check her out, she’s awesome.

Peaceful JAM (50:10.622)
And he’s like, yeah, that kind of speaks to what good social media is, right? Like it should be a dialogue where you’re sourcing great material as one part of the conversation, speaking to it, having it, have it have it infused into the content marketing plan so that I mean, there’s nothing more relevant to your audience, right? Other than, you know, answering their questions, the things that are popping up for them. Why can’t I have vandalines? You know, that’s great. I’m

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (50:37.304)

Peaceful JAM (50:40.158)
I’ll try to find a way on this YouTube episode to put the URLs to those Instagram handles. And I guess while you’re saying that, like maybe it demonstrated maybe she’s like across every single social media channel, but it sounds like she’s really honed in on Instagram. So that’s something you typically recommend for brands that are at least on the smaller side.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (50:55.126)

Yeah, absolutely. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s, I’m just not on TikTok as much because that’s a pretty big B2C realm in my opinion, and I’m more in the B2B realm. Um, so I don’t know what she’s doing across other platforms, but I wouldn’t be surprised if TikTok and Instagram are the two places that she was just really crushing it right now, just cause they lend so well to posting. You can create a pretty successful TikTok from a pretty successful Instagram, if you’re smart about it.

That’s probably the only one that you could like cross reference all of the same stuff and be okay for now. Six months from now, if you hear this podcast, that might not be the case anymore.

Peaceful JAM (51:32.998)
right? Who knows? Who knows? It’ll be called low key. So I imagine, going back to my intention, I imagine that there’s going to be some creator, some copywriter who’s working for XYZ Co. Corp. on the NYSD and they’re inspired by you.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (51:39.836)

Peaceful JAM (51:59.854)
What would be your advice to someone who’s considering niching down or changing career trajectory altogether into the copywriting space?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (52:10.38)
Yeah, yeah, so I think one of the best things that you can do is if you don’t really have a lot of writing experience or you don’t know where to start, one thing that was really helpful for me is find one voice that you can listen to and follow and really try out what they’re asking you to do. Much like the farmer situation that we were talking about where I was like, there’s a lot of free information online. Why should you pay for their school?

It’s kind of the same with copywriting. There’s a lot you can learn online, but you are going to be having to sift through people who want to become influencers, people who have never been copywriters, people who have been copywriters for six months. Find somebody who you feel like is really successful, does a great job. Two for me, Sarah Turner is just amazing and I’ve really enjoyed everything I’ve gotten out of Write Your Right of Freedom. The other person that I wrote for, Sarah Turner, is Sarah Turner. Sarah Turner is a great writer.

really admire is Jacob McMillan, who does an excellent job like helping and teaching copywriters, especially if you’re someone that’s a little bit more tech oriented and you’re like, I wanna learn more about the AI side of this. He is really good at helping copywriters integrate AI into their business and building successful businesses. But finding that voice to listen to and being willing to invest in it, it’s a pretty big mindset shift that we’re all so scared to like.

Peaceful JAM (53:14.539)
Uh huh.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (53:29.62)
start a business, which is so I was there too, that I was like, I can’t put money into this, I can’t create a website. I can’t blah, blah. And I’ve wasted my money on such stupid stuff over the years. And the business is not the thing that you’re going to be like, wow, I really wasted my money on that unless you just don’t do anything with that. And if that’s the case, most content creators will give you like a 14 day cancel, so just decide it within the 14 days, if you’re going to really commit to this or not and get your money back.

But it’s not going to be a waste of your money. It’s not going to be a waste of your time. Um, and I like to joke that copywriting is kind of the gateway drug to just like full entrepreneurship that you kind of feel like you can do anything once you figure out how to create a copywriting business. Um, and so, so yeah, all of that is to say, find one voice that you can listen to, that you trust, that you’d be willing to pay to learn a little bit more from. I follow that advice. I recommend also looking for content creators or

coaches that also have some kind of community aspect, because you’re going to be lonely and you’re going to have hard clients and things are going to slide aside and not go to plan. And you’re going to need somebody to say, this isn’t totally your fault, or this was just a bad day, or what did we learn from this that we can apply to, to make sure that it doesn’t happen again and support you and uplift you. And that community component is really important too.

Peaceful JAM (54:50.882)
Oh my God, I just got to touch on something here that I’ve noticed as we’ve really plowed into the sustainability space over here at Peaceful. This is the most collaborative sector I’ve ever witnessed. I know you’ve been through a copywriting community and that there’s a spirit of collaboration in there because I see on your LinkedIn, everyone’s a copywriter chatting and commenting

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (55:06.53)
No doubt.

Peaceful JAM (55:20.162)
wowing and celebrating each other. Technically, in the sort of old capitalist world, those are competitors. And I just have never felt that to any degree. I’ve had, we’ve just started like reaching out and working with other agencies. Whereas like, why are we gonna partner up on this project? Well, because we’re all on this thing together. We’re all on a similar mission here. And let’s just like,

lift all the boats. It’s the planet is way more important than or whatever like it’s way more important that we sustain that then sustain like some sort of 99,000% profit margin. Have you noticed that too?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (56:05.332)
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And I think to a couple other things there, one, you can market with other people in sustainability that don’t do exactly what you do. Find graphic designers who work. You’ve loved, find photographers who are doing a good job, reach out to different agency owners and be like, Hey, the brands you work with are really cool. If you ever need a rider, let me know. And that goes such a long ways and you’ll end up working with such cool brands because agencies.

can pull in some really cool brands as, as you know. Um, and two, I would also say that like, if you weren’t surrounding yourself with copywriters, if you’re surrounding yourself with copywriters who are like, I don’t want to share this job with you because I do. I’ll write anything anywhere. And like, it’s me versus you. Like time to like, thank you next. Like leave that group. Like don’t talk to those people anymore. Like all of the copywriters that are commenting on my stuff also, like none of them, right.

Peaceful JAM (56:55.863)
Perfect. All right.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (57:02.464)
what I write and I would never try and take on some of the stuff that they like they write about like they’re writing for like go eat like ghost writing eBooks for like thought leaders in the coaching and wellness space. Like I can’t, I can’t, I know nothing about that. Why would I try and take on that project? Instead, I’m going to pass it off to one of those people that I know. And that goes both ways. Like my friend who were like ghost writes those eBooks, Allegra is not going to be like,

Peaceful JAM (57:23.811)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (57:31.968)
I’m really excited to write this white paper about regenerative agriculture. She’s going to be like, nah, this is going to go over to Kelcie. This is going to be a bad time for me because it’s not where my passion lies. It’s not what my business is. And ultimately as a copywriter, when you do niche down, you become a lot faster and you become an expert and the writing becomes more fun. And then you get to network with all these other copywriters that some of my best gigs have come from other copywriters. The, the Pila gig that I did had come from another copywriter who was like,

Peaceful JAM (57:36.768)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (57:59.54)
Hey, I know you write in sustainability. I know you really care about composting. I thought this would be a great fit for you. And she’s another copywriter that could have just taken the job.

Peaceful JAM (58:09.742)
100%. So true, so true. Yeah, don’t stretch way outside the fringes of your skill set and interests. Find a network that helps each other and shares projects and leads back and forth. I just love that. I love the spirit of the space. So if that’s one more good reason to jump into the sustainable sector fray. Kelcie.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (58:33.069)

Peaceful JAM (58:35.918)
I would love to know, there are gonna be so many people watching this episode wondering how they work with you and what’s coming up for you and like, what’s the best way that people can engage with you. So would you mind just sharing, sharing how, yeah.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (58:47.256)

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn. If you just want to start a more casual conversation, um, under Kelcie autos Kelcie spelled K E L C I E. Ottoes is spelled O T O E S. Um, I married into a complicated last name with a complicated first name that was never going to be made for podcasts. So I’m going to be spelling it the rest of my life. Um, and then my website is Kelcie autos copywriting.com and anybody who.

Peaceful JAM (59:12.002)

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (59:16.384)
mentions that they heard me on this podcast, I would love to offer, um, of the, I offer free six free blog posts, just topic ideas as well as specific keywords, um, to match to those blog posts to help increase traffic to your site, just to give you a starting point. If you’re like, we blog, but we don’t really know what traffic we’re getting. These, these kinds of blogs can help you get more traffic and be a little bit more strategic. Um,

And I’d also like to offer just a free website on it. On top of that, I’d love to see what’s going on, what you could maybe be doing better and provide some guidance and opportunities. So just make sure you mentioned that you heard about me. Listen, I’ll get you hooked up. Like I said, we wanna help you. We want you to be successful.

Peaceful JAM (01:00:02.763)
Yeah. Take that offer you guys. Like I had a whole conversation with Kelcie offline about a prospective client, the feedback we got, the note she sent over were 10 times more intense than I was even expecting because it’s something really, it was just high level. It was nitty gritty. Like she really pours her heart into it. So I can’t recommend reaching out to Kelcie enough. And

If nothing else, watch her on LinkedIn as a case study on how to do it. Kelcie, to wrap up, first I want to thank you. And then secondly, we’ve partnered up with One Tree Planted, which is an organization that does a dollar. Every dollar donated is a tree planted. And I’m going to share the site because I’d love to plant some trees on behalf of Kelcie Ottoes’ copywriting.

business. And so I’m going to share my screen real quick and ask if you could guide me to where you’d like those trees planted and we’ll do it. Let’s see. Okay. Nice.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:01:06.892)
Yeah, absolutely. I’m ready. I did my homework ahead of time. So I gotta make sure it’s going where I want them to go.

Peaceful JAM (01:01:15.41)
Okay, so there is the site and I gave you a couple options beforehand by region or by impact. Do you know what? Yeah, gotcha.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:01:25.068)
Yeah, let’s go by impact. And then we’re gonna go to the urban forestry program.

Peaceful JAM (01:01:32.406)
Yeah, a ribbon forestry.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:01:35.124)
Yeah. And there’s a couple of reasons that I’ve, that I picked this, um, specifically, uh, green spaces plays such an integral role with our, our mental health and our overall happiness and wellbeing. We really saw that in COVID that people didn’t, who didn’t have green spaces really, really struggled. So being able to plant trees here makes such a big difference. Um, I’m also really passionate about pollinator corridors, um, which is a great opportunity for everyone who feels like I can’t get involved.

Like there’s nothing that I can do to like really help with this situation. I’m just a person who lives in an apartment. It’s creating pollinator quarters within your community. Even if it’s just a couple of flowers out front of your house or a tomato plant on your balcony, or like signing up for a community garden, you can make such a big difference for pollinators in your communities and trees are one really awesome way to do that and support that and heat, heat islands are so real. Having lived in Denver for 10 years, I absolutely experienced like.

how terrible it is to have things be 10 degrees hotter in a major metropolitan. And the role that trees play in decreasing those heat islands and making living just more enjoyable for everyone and offsetting climate change is, is just huge within those areas. Um, but I also want to say, I have a little bit of a gripe to pick here because I wouldn’t be surprised if one tree planted comes and decides to work with you one day. Of course. And.

They really need to add an agroforestry branch where people can sign up to help farmers get more trees planted on their land too, because agroforestry has a ton of positive benefits when it comes to farming and creating more diversification on our farms. So would love to see them add that one day.

Peaceful JAM (01:03:15.37)
Yeah, it’s interesting. Yeah, well, actually I’m gonna have their partnership development leader, Hannah on a future episode here recording soon. So I’ll make sure to surface that. Yeah. So I’ve already added, yeah, let’s do it. So let’s see. So I’ve already added some mangroves on behalf of the peaceful media.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:03:28.828)
Amazing! Yes, please do! We’ve got to support our farmers!

Peaceful JAM (01:03:45.43)
I’ve been researching a little bit and understanding that the mangroves, I wouldn’t even have thought of that one, but according to some of the researchers, like it’s one of the most powerful for carbon sequestration and the decarbonization efforts. I may be saying that incorrectly, forgive me, scientists, but I just, mangroves seem to be like a really high impact way to help the planet cool down.

get rid of the carbon. So we’re going to check out and I’m sure it’ll have my billing information on here. So we’ll have to blur that out or something. But I’m really happy and pleased that we’re able to do this with one tree planted and with you, Kelcie. So thank you for putting some time and love into that. Let’s see. So I’m sharing. All right. So Kelcie,

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:04:25.54)
Close your eyes.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:04:34.116)
Awesome! Thank you so much!

Peaceful JAM (01:04:43.222)
Thank you again so much. Are there any closing thoughts for everybody who’s listening to this, who’ve made it to the end?

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:04:50.9)
No, this is, if you’re somebody who’s on the fence, the sustainability fence, just even getting to have this conversation with you was just an absolute joy. And that’s just like the tip of the iceberg of the work that I do that just brings me so much joy and makes me so happy. And I think everyone deserves some of that in their career or in their hobbies or in some aspect of their life. So thank you so much for having me. Thanks so much for all these thoughtful questions.

I am obviously a huge fan of all the work that you’re doing and I’m just so excited that we got a chance to sit down and talk for a little bit today.

Peaceful JAM (01:05:26.606)
Kelcie. All right, we’ll go out and take advantage of Kelcie’s offer. Kelcie Ottoes Copywriting.com. You’ll see the name of this of her name here alongside the episode. And until we see you on the next episode or out there in the world at some sustainability conference across the world. So I wish you well and let’s keep loving more and playing more and doing more good. I’m Jam at Peaceful Media and we’ll see you soon. Take care.

Kelcie Ottoes (she/her) (01:05:54.276)

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