Lali Szumowski

Lali Szumowski (00:00.088)

think Patagonia is one of those large brands that come to a lot of people’s minds when they first think about sustainability and doing good for the planet and the way that they do market their products and tell the stories, not just about the fabrics that they use and the processes that they go through to get rid of certain chemicals and things like that, but also just about their products of being long lasting and…

 

It’s literally woven into the fabric of what they do. mean, in the jackets, have the, it, wash it, repair it, send it on to the next person, and something to that effect. But I think that’s one that is really inspirational. And they do really admit, they say, hey, 10 years ago, we had no idea about this chemical that we just found out about, and here’s what we’re gonna go do, and here’s a video about our supply chain.

 

all of the different areas that this impacts this particular piece of clothing that we make where we were using this because it was really durable, but now we’re finding that, okay, we need to switch this. And then they go through that process in a really transparent and honest way. And they’re also just a really fun brand to watch. And that’s coming from somebody that’s not a huge outdoors person.

 

Yeah, I too like to launch Matagonia stuff from a part of like, that jacket looks really cool. I would never use it.

 

I’m not climbing a mountain, but I support them 100%. I’m Fran.

 

Peaceful Hosts (01:31.234)

Hi, I’m Jason. I’m Karli. This is Bo Peter. And I’m Nicole. And this is Marketing for What Matters, where we explore how marketing paired with a regenerative mindset can uplift humanity, heal the planet, and still achieve profitable business growth. Hello and welcome to the Marketing for What Matters podcast. I am your host for today, Carly Petrovic, and I am joined by Lali Zumowski, Senior Director.

 

of Marketing for Lulu, which is a print on demand publishing platform on a mission to make the world a better place. Now, before Lali and I get more into talking about Lulu, what the company is doing in the sustainability sector and all the stuff that’s really inspiring us as a company right now, I want to share your bio, Lali, because…

 

You have one of those fun bios that I wish more people had. And also I think it’s important for our guests to get a good sense of who you are before we kind of dive in. okay, so Lali Szumowski brings a love for fostering growth, having meaningful impact and finding creative solutions and lattes to her leadership at Lulu.

 

As the Senior Director of Marketing, she’s passionate about helping creators discover the best way to grow their business and has led her team through the expansion of Lulu’s innovative direct sales solutions. When she’s not laughing out loud with her coworkers, she enjoys cuddling with her pups, excuse me, and seeking out the world’s best french fries. And I was just like, girl, same, had me at pups and french.

 

I mean, listen, give me a latte, puppy time, and fries, and I’m good to go.

 

Karli Petrovic (03:08.02)

Yes, yes, exactly. So welcome, Lali. Thank you so much for joining us.

 

Thank you, thank you for having me. I’m so excited.

 

Well, now before we start our conversation in earnest, I really wanted to give our listeners a little bit of a background on why we’re talking today. And one of the main reasons we wanted to feature Lulu and you on the podcast is not everyone knows this, but Peaceful Media has been kind of behind the scenes pursuing B Corp status for a little bit now. And for those who don’t know, which you’re gonna talk a little bit in detail, but the process is extensive. It requires kind of a lot.

 

So we’re really inspired by companies that have successfully gone through the process and come out the other side. we also, Lulu is the first and only print on demand publishing platform to gain this status, which is pretty amazing in and of itself, pretty damn cool. And so that kind of drew us to Lulu because we wanted to partner with a publishing platform for the zine we created, which

 

Those who have been following the podcast know we just kind of released an episode on that whole process, but we really wanted to work with, you know, a platform and a company that takes the regenerative mindset seriously and Lulu walks the walk. So I want to hear about this all from your perspective. So what is it about Lulu that drew you in Lali? What inspired you to start working here and, and what

 

Karli Petrovic (04:42.52)

does that sustainability mindset mean to you? Yeah.

 

Yeah, sure. So I moved to Durham, North Carolina about eight or nine years ago now. Time is absolutely flying. I at the time was doing social media marketing as a consultant and I had one of my clients. She was an indie author. So I was starting to get familiar with the self-publishing industry, publishing in general. And when I moved, I really wanted to find an in-house marketing job. So she actually introduced me to Lulu and was like, I know that they’re out there.

 

And they’ve been around for a long time, so you should really check them out. So it was a little bit of a connection. as soon as I looked up the website, there happened to also be a social media job open at the time. It was kind of this perfect storm, if you will. But I was really excited about Lulu’s mission to make the world a better place one book at a time.

 

When I got into the interview, I think the thing that stood out to me most was actually the people. Everybody that I met with was so kind, so smart, and all really believed in the mission behind the company. And you could really just tell that everybody was really passionate, you and you know that somebody really loves what they do, and they’re talking about it, and they’re excited about it, and it really shows, and it’s infectious in that way.

 

So that was something that I really noticed from the interview process. And, you know, as things went, I was able to get the job and I’ve actually been working at Lulu now for about, I think I actually just hit my ear marks. So it’s been a while working here and I’ve absolutely loved it. And really for me, just kind of knowing that Lulu’s mission and values really aligned with my own personal values. And that’s something that

 

Lali Szumowski (06:39.086)

motivates me as a person, you know, out in the working world to really be able to not only work in marketing, which I love because you just get to tell everybody the cool stuff that you’re working on, but also just working for a company that really believes in what you also believe in as well.

 

And now you get to be one of those happy people that love you.

 

Here I am eight years later.

 

And also, think, you know, pointing out eight years is like a lifetime, especially in like tech adjacent industries. mean, I think that speaks to it too. And now all this time, Lulu has been on this mission, right? And they’ve been doing all these sustainability efforts. So what does it really mean to you to be able to say you work with a sustainable brand and why does that matter in the world?

 

Yeah, I think that for me, it’s one, I would say one thing about being a B Corp. It’s actually, I think even greater than being just about sustainability. I think that being a B Corp really emphasizes impact in a lot of different areas from, know, internally with your company culture to, you know, how you’re working with your customers and your partners, also to how you are working with the planet as well and working

 

Lali Szumowski (07:58.734)

to make a positive impact, so both socially and environmentally. So for me, that’s really what it’s all about, that being a B Corp touches all of these different facets of ways that you can do good. And the sustainability aspect is just one part of that. And for us, that was something that really drew us to being a B Corp, not only that it’s just kind of the right thing for us to do, but also that we are a print on demand publishing company.

 

having that business model where it’s print on demand, where books are only printed once they’re ordered versus in a traditional publishing capacity, of books, tens of thousands, millions of books are printed. And if they go unsold, they are pulped. And so having that print on demand model, really focusing on that as a way to reduce waste in an industry that…

 

you know, a lot of people would consider the traditional publishing industry not so sustainable. So I think that was something that really drew us to looking at sustainability first and then finding B Corp certification and really diving into, okay, this is actually more than just sustainability. And for me, I love that it’s all encompassing and that works kind of with my lifestyle and how I want to operate and who I want to be as a person as well.

 

We all have different things that we’re passionate about and sometimes it can be overwhelming, but it’s also really exciting because I think there’s just a lot of different ways that you can make a positive impact.

 

Yeah, and I think that’s something really to highlight for listeners too is that I don’t think people realize the extent to which books are published and then pulped because it is almost, you know, a majority. Basically, when, you know, you’re going through the publishing process, it’s a guess about how many books are going to actually sell and, you know, how much gets sent back. So it’s really cool, I think, that you guys have taken that and moved away from that traditional model.

 

Karli Petrovic (10:06.306)

But not only that, there are only so many people who go the traditional publishing route, whereas as a self-publisher, you get to kind of do your own thing and ensure that your work gets out in the world. So I’m sure that’s powerful too.

 

Oh, exactly. Yeah. And I think too, you know, being able to provide that access to publishing to people that, you know, we’re not the gatekeepers of content. We want to hear everybody’s voices and everyone’s stories. And we want to help businesses, you know, grow with books and, you know, have that success and whatever that means to somebody. And maybe success is sharing their knowledge, maybe success is book sales, maybe success is scaling their business.

 

whatever that means, that’s what we want to be able to help people do with our platform.

 

Very cool. Very cool. So what are some of your favorite wins? I’m sure there are a bunch with respect to sustainability, but what were the wins and why did you think that they were so impactful?

 

I think the biggest win would be achieving B Corp certification in 2016. That was about a year before I joined Lulu, but I was able to kind of learn more about the process and how that all worked as soon as I started here. So, I mean, as you mentioned earlier, it is a huge accomplishment. It is no small feat. It is a very rigorous process and

 

Lali Szumowski (11:35.182)

it’s very impressive when people are able to either work towards certification and ultimately achieve it. And I think that that would probably be the biggest win. But we’ve also had some other wins in terms of our company policies that I think that having the recertification process, so every three years you need to recertify. So you need to go back through the impact assessment and go through and answer all of those questions again and resubmit.

 

We actually just did this in January. So we are right now in this recertification process. But I think having that as a part of the process really encourages businesses to continually look at their practices and what their policies and what they’re doing. So it’s not this, I just filled out this application and I scored really high and now I’m B Corp certified. It’s like, no, this is a very long journey that we’re all on and we’re on it together.

 

So being able to do that, we’re continually looking at those questions and even now the standards are being updated and there’s gonna be even more to the B Corp certification process. So that’s one way that we kind of use that impact assessment to take a look at where are the places for us to improve and grow, where are we doing really well in terms of kind of our scores in different categories. But for us, an example of that would be early on,

 

when I first started working at Lulu, we had paid volunteer days. so that was, know, volunteerism is a really important aspect of our, you know, community core value here at Lulu. And so being able to not just only encourage our employees here to work with the community and volunteer, but also to have a paid day to do that and be able to take the time that you want to, to work with local organizations.

 

That’s amazing. Yeah. So, I mean, that’s where those kind of impacts reverberate outside the company itself too, which is really important. And one of the things that I think is important to note with B Corp status and certification is just like, it’s so much easier not to actually do. So the fact that anyone is like, I’m going to do this and then I’m going to do this every three to five years. It’s like, you have to actually want it.

 

Karli Petrovic (13:59.926)

You know, it’s like no one’s doing this passively. So now we’ve kind of talked about B Corp a few times. So tell me a little bit about the process, what it looks like and how expansive it really is to get into.

 

Sure. So the B Impact Assessment, this is provided by the nonprofit B Lab that provides the B Corp certification. And this is actually available online for free. Anybody can take a look at it. Anybody can use it. So whether you are just starting out and you are looking at different ways that you can make an impact with your company or if you are actively trying to get certified or you’re in the recertification process like we are.

 

of going through those questions once again. And the process kind of, this is just one part of the process. There’s a legal component as well to it to really ensure that you are meeting certain standards of accountability and transparency with regard to social and environmental impact. And then last, there’s this transparency portion of the B Corp certification process, which is essentially you saying that

 

you’re giving permission to have your score available on the B-Lab site so that anybody can take a look at what your score is and what you scored in each of the categories.

 

Wow. Yeah.

 

Lali Szumowski (15:25.836)

Yeah, and I will say for the recertification process, it’s once you submit everything, it does take a while. You get assigned an analyst who works with you, goes through all your documentation, and that’s how they determine kind of what your scores are and really make sure that you are providing accurate information as well.

 

Yeah. gotta have someone to hold you accountable, right?

 

Yep, definitely.

 

That’s amazing. I mean, in addition to this, and like you said, like B Corp kind of touches a lot of areas within the sustainability sector. So because Lulu has so many sustainability focused initiative, what, from your perspective, are some components that every sustainability focused brand really needs to kind of stay in this focus?

 

this focus? That is a great question. I think there are a few things to be mindful of. I don’t know if I want to necessarily say needs. Again, it definitely depends on like if you’re a solo entrepreneur, if you’re working for a large enterprise business, everybody will have kind of different areas of passion or expertise or bandwidth.

 

Lali Szumowski (16:38.508)

I think that if you are working at a larger company, kind of having that executive buy-in is really helpful, especially if the sustainability initiatives are not necessarily coming from above. In our case, it was, and our CEO, Kathy Hensgen, is really passionate about being a B Corp, and this was something that was really important to her. So that was something that we had, but I do think that it’s really important.

 

With that, think just aligning with your internal teams and just having everyone on the same page of what those sustainability goals are, what you’re trying to achieve, because it touches all different aspects, right? You know, having people in your company that are in operations and working more with your supply chain, aligned with marketing, aligned with sales, you know, and just kind of really making sure that everybody

 

is aligned because that will definitely help with data and reporting and tracking your progress down the line. I think if you can have a dedicated person or team working on this where that is their sole job to focus on your sustainability initiatives, I know that can be tricky sometimes, but having somebody really leading that charge and project managing what your efforts are and initiatives that I think could be really helpful. I also think having

 

really strong brand values and a brand foundation can really help guide everything that you’re doing as well and kind of help that alignment within the company. Which also would help being able to determine your partnerships, kind of who you’re gonna partner with, transparency within those partners, finding other people that you’re collaborating with or working with that share the same values that you do. And…

 

I think really having that employee engagement and culture piece of it as well. So it’s not necessarily just about maybe how you’re reducing your carbon emissions in one area, but it’s also about how are you building these habits internally and whether that’s about just encouraging compassing in the office or volunteerism, but really just kind of engaging your internal community as well as your local community. I think those would be some things that come to mind.

 

Karli Petrovic (19:01.89)

Yeah, for sure. And one of the things that you mentioned, right, is like having someone dedicated to this effort. I think that so much of, you know, putting the effort where, you know, you really want to be is saying like, okay, this is kind of like a side job until, you know, you reach a certain level, you know? So who’s going to take on this side job of getting us to be…

 

And as you said, it’s a lot of work. yeah, you I always say like more heads are better than one. So again, obviously, depending on kind of what your goals are, the size of your organization, and again, being a B corporation specifically, we are talking about for profit businesses. But again, you know, if you are just learning more and be able to take that free impact assessment, that is a great way to just kind of start out and see, okay, what

 

What do you want to report on? What is important to you? And then determining kind of what those needs are for your brand or business.

 

Yeah, what a great way to set priorities too, is just like, know where maybe you’re not scoring as high or where you need to kind of put more energy. So that’s really cool too. That’s a good point. And you you mentioned, right, like that the marketing efforts around sustainability and B Corp status are also woven into everything the company does. So how does that play out in your marketing, PR, social media, all these strategies?

 

Yeah, for us, think the most important thing is to figure out kind of what story we want to tell and then tell it really authentically. And this is, you know, not just this kind of one and done certification. We really wanted to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk, which is why we’ve gone through this process and continue to do so.

 

Lali Szumowski (20:53.386)

And it is really woven into our mission and our values here at Lulu. And I think that all of that is just about who we are. And again, like what I mentioned in my first interview here at this company, really seeing the employees here embody all of that as well. And so when it comes to our marketing, really figuring out, how can we, it’s not just like, hey, we achieve this, this is great. It’s about,

 

the why behind it and the value add to consumers and to us as a business and to us as employees as well. so, you know, we do have a lot of digital marketing channels. We also go to a lot of events. And so between kind of our digital channels, as well as meeting people in person and talking about our B Corp certification and what that means to us are kind of some ways that we try to get out the word.

 

Amazing, amazing. So now, know, we’re in addition to kind of getting the certification and then telling that story authentically, what do you think has this power to get consumers excited to spend a little bit more on brands that invest in these types of things? Because

 

I think that’s part of telling the story, Is bringing more people into the fold and having them value it as well. So I’d love to hear that from your perspective.

 

Well, I think one thing that we are seeing, and we have over the last few decades, but how important sustainability is to consumers that is increasing over the years. And I do think it varies by generation. I know that Gen Z from reports that I’ve read are really leading this charge, but I do think overall we’re seeing

 

Lali Szumowski (22:49.966)

more and more consumers increasingly concerned about climate change, about the environment. I read a report, was Bain and Company’s, I think it was 20, 24 report around sustainability. And I think they said about 60 % of consumers are more concerned about climate change and are actually looking to brands and to retailers to really guide what they should be.

 

doing, how they can live more sustainably, how they can buy more sustainable products. And from another report that I read, it was the Razorfish and Vice report, 82 % of respondents said that brands that they buy personally stand for a greater mission. that 76 % of respondents said that brands that they buy make the world a better place. And 67 % said that brands they buy make them a better

 

So I think that we’re seeing this shift and I was actually at this amazing series that has been going on locally called A Case for Good. And it’s really about using business as a force for good and why that ultimately is good for business. And we are seeing the shift about how consumers not just they only care just about the planet, but also how they are personally living.

 

and what their lifestyle is and really incorporating what they’re buying into their lifestyle and making these very small changes over time to, you cause again, it be really overwhelming like, oh, I need to go and switch to all compostable materials or I need to go and not use those plastic dishwasher pods or whatever it may be. And, you know, really looking at natural products and all of these things. And again, I think

 

that is becoming more important. It’s not just like one thing here and there, but it’s actually like, actually how can I change my lifestyle and what I’m purchasing and what that reflects about who I am voting with my dollar, supporting businesses that are doing good. But then also that’s actually changing my life and who I’m around as well.

 

Karli Petrovic (24:58.668)

Yeah, and I think, you know, if I’m hearing you correctly, right, people are starting to see that as part of their identity. Like, I am a person who cares about sustainability. I am a person who votes with my dollar for sustainability. And like, there’s this part of me too that loves that, right? Like that, you know, we’re all using our like reusable straws and we’re doing our little part because that does matter. But ultimately like…

 

when we still have a bunch of corporations dumping oil in the ocean, right? We only get so far as individuals until businesses like Lulu and others start to say enough is enough. like we’re impacting change on the low level and then we start to impact change and pressure kind of the more Goliath type archetypes to do the same, right? So.

 

Yeah, and I think too consumers are really driving a lot of the changes that we’re seeing, right? Because as you said, they are putting pressure on businesses and at the end of the day, stakeholders know that that is what’s gonna matter to the consumers and it kind of comes back to that value alignment of really finding those businesses that, okay, yeah, they have a product that you need or that you want, but hey, also they seem like really awesome people that are really trying to do better.

 

And I think trying is actually very accurate because nobody’s perfect. It’s impossible to be perfect. And even when we look at larger brands that you think, they are almost perfect, they often speak about this journey and that it’s progress and they’re constantly learning. And I think as long as you have that mindset as a brand or business, people are going to connect with that because that is authentic and that’s going to build trust.

 

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s kind of a perfect tie-in to my next question, which is around, from your perspective, what brands in this space are communicating effectively, are actually walking the walk? Who is Lulu and you personally, Lali, and who are you inspired by?

 

Lali Szumowski (27:03.266)

can definitely speak for myself. mean, I think Patagonia is one of those large brands that come to a lot of people’s minds when they first think about sustainability and doing good for the planet and the way that they do market their products and tell the stories, not just about the fabrics that they use and the processes that they go through to get rid of certain chemicals and things like that, but also just about their products of being long lasting and

 

You know, it’s literally woven into the fabric of what they do. I mean, you know, in the jackets, have the, you know, wear it, wash it, repair it, you know, send it on to the next person and something to that effect. I think that’s one that is really inspirational. And they do really admit, they say, hey, you know, 10 years ago, we had no idea about this chemical that we just found out about and here’s what we’re going to go do. And here’s a video about our supply chain.

 

all of the different areas that this impacts this particular piece of clothing that we make where we were using this because it was really durable, but now we’re finding that, okay, we need to switch this. And then they go through that process in a really transparent and honest way. And they’re also just a really fun brand to watch. And that’s coming from somebody that’s not a huge outdoors person.

 

Yeah, I like to watch Patagonia stuff from a part of like, that jacket looks really cool. I would never use it.

 

We’re not climbing a mountain, but I support them 100%. Yep, definitely. But you know, and then there’s other companies like Allbirds and Rothy’s and, you know, really looking at the materials that they’re using or Rothy’s turning plastic bottles and plastic waste into shoes, which I think is really cool. And I think showing consumers things like that of

 

Lali Szumowski (28:57.666)

hey, if you recycle all of this, this could turn into X, Y, and Z and really showing people the difference that it can make. And I know sometimes that we get discouraged, overwhelmed, and really showing that there are really cool things that companies are doing to take our waste and give it a new life is really important. And then we have people like Ben and Jerry’s who I feel like they are doing

 

so much in the social impact as well, and that are very vocal and they are really stand by their values and they take a stand when they want to. And I think that’s also really inspiring.

 

Yeah, for sure. Because these types of things aren’t just limited to the environment. Sustainability, regeneration, all of this has those outward impacts. And some of what you’ve talked about here too is Patagonia realizing that something that worked a long time ago is no longer serving those values. We all run into challenges along this process.

 

What are some of the challenges that you’ve observed companies facing when trying to advance a sustainability focused mention and specifically Lulu? I’m sure it was not all sunshine and butterflies and rainbows that’s starting to go through this process.

 

That’s of the things that’s challenging, that has been challenging for us, but I think other B corporations are people that are trying to achieve B Corp status as well. I’d say data and reporting, that’s always been very difficult. And I think it’s more than just the actual reporting process, but really figuring out

 

Lali Szumowski (30:49.038)

what data is important to you or what you need to measure and why, and then also the reporting piece and how you’re going to report on it and what that looks like. Because I think that, going back to the impact assessment, and I’ve had this conversation with other local B Corps, our North Carolina B Corps community is actually so amazing and supportive and inspiring. And we have quarterly B Corps events and a lot of different

 

series like the case for good series that I had mentioned as well. But we try to get together and talk about things that challenges that we’re facing or questions that we have or, like when you were going through the certification process, what did you do for this? And I think data and reporting is one of those areas where figuring out what the numbers actually mean, why you want to report on it, do you need to spend the time reporting on it?

 

And then figuring out how, especially if you do have a larger supply chain or you’re working with lot of different vendors and partners and there’s a lot of, you know, there’s a lot of people in the process and figuring out, okay, like what are you doing? What are your suppliers doing? And kind of how you can kind of get that alignment to make sure that that reporting process is easy. So I would say that’s definitely something that can be hard. And then I think another thing as well that we’ve experienced and I’ve heard other people too is

 

Um, just goal setting in general. think it’s really easy to get excited and want to do a lot. And, uh, it’s easy to bite off more than you can chew. And I think really bringing it back to working at the pace that works for you, that works for your brand, for your business. Um, while it’s great to have these brands that you’re looking at, like Patagonia, that’s really inspiring. Um, you know,

 

It’s okay that you’re not Patagonia and that, you know, you can just set some, short-term goals and some long-term goals. And if that means you’re doing something every month, great. If you’re doing something every quarter, okay. And if you’re doing something every year, that is also okay. Like this is the journey that you’re on. And while it’s great to be inspired by other organizations, it’s okay to kind of make those goals and decisions on what’s best for you and what your brand or your company needs.

 

Karli Petrovic (33:10.39)

Yeah, and I think that’s so true, right? Like when we set some of these goals or set out to do something, it’s so easy to burn out on trying to do everything at once. And right, there’s this mentality in tech especially, right? Like move fast and break things, but like it’s okay if you like move slow and don’t break things, you know? It’s okay if you just slowly ease your way in because like ultimately I think what you’re saying is like, you know, a little bit is better than nothing.

 

You know, putting this out there is a step toward getting to the place where you can feel really proud about what you’re doing.

 

Yeah, and I think to connecting with a lot of the other B Corps in the area, have Larry’s Coffee and Counter Culture and the Loading Dock and Murphy’s Naturals and Southern Energy Management and Compass Now. These are organizations that we at Lulu have worked with or partnered with or are friends with in the area. And I think also having that network of other companies that, whether they’re B Corp or not, and they’re just purpose…

 

purpose-driven brands and they’re trying to do good. Having that network, I think is really helpful to work on some of these challenges together and figure out what’s the best way to go about something. Maybe you’re talking about the new B Corp standards, maybe there’s something else and new policy or things that are going into place that just having that network and community of people that are also trying to do what you’re doing has been really beneficial and inspiring to me personally.

 

So you’ve done a really good job of giving some advice to companies just starting their journey. But what are some things that you find are sometimes fly under the radar or like we don’t keep in mind when we’re first starting out. So what does that first step of the journey towards sustainability look like?

 

Lali Szumowski (35:08.972)

I think, I mean, I mentioned kind of having, know, goal setting can be difficult. I think starting small is a really great way, you know, whether that’s something as simple as in your personal life, you know, trying to carpool to work or at your work getting composting in the office. But I think there, you know, are times where we feel like small actions are not making a difference or it’s like, it’s just little me like.

 

this is not moving the needle, but it actually is. And if everybody is taking a small rock and putting it on a pile, that pile is gonna get really big really quickly. And so I think starting small is great. I also think that finding what you’re passionate about, I mentioned this earlier a bit, but really diving into what really matters to you or to your business, that’s gonna make a huge difference.

 

We mentioned this earlier too, but just that does make all the difference in terms of the amount of energy and work that you put towards something and it really shows and shows authentically as well. So I think thinking about what really matters to you. And again, that could be a really long list. So that’s where the start small comes in and narrowing that down a bit. But I think that if you…

 

Maybe if you’re a business, of looking at different frameworks can be helpful. So we mentioned the beat impact assessment, thinking about your triple bottom line as we have profit, we have people, we have planet and thinking about, okay, and those three aspects, maybe just look at those different categories or look at different aspects of your business or different departments and really, maybe take one thing like your carbon emissions and then you look at one piece of your business.

 

So kind of thinking about different ways to categorize or break things down. Another framework that I have been learning a little bit more about recently is the CDP framework as well. So that’s the climate disclosure project. And they also have a questionnaire that you can download for free on their website. And they have the questionnaire based on

 

Lali Szumowski (37:22.936)

different business sizes as well. And that is also one thing that the impact assessment has as well too. If you are a solo printer, you are gonna have different questions and different things to answer too versus being a large business as well. So I think there’s some really great frameworks out there to kind of take a look at, to get started, to figure out, okay, these are what other businesses are doing, these are different categories. maybe I a room of thought about…

 

you know, this one category as part of this, you know, maybe thinking about your employee handbook and the policies that you have in place or the benefits that you offer as a company or your D &IB efforts as well. All of these things, you know, again, it’s from if you want to really get focused on sustainability in terms of your carbon emissions and composting and planting and, you know.

 

that area or if you want to take a larger approach as well. And again, what are you really passionate about and kind of start there.

 

Yeah, starting small and starting imperfectly is what it sounds like. Yes, yeah, yeah. Not letting, right, was the phrase like great be the enemy of good or something like that, right? So yeah, I can see that. That’s, that’s, and so much of what you’ve said too is around like having that like conversation with yourself first, like what is important to you and…

 

Perfectly and intentionally, I guess.

 

Karli Petrovic (38:48.898)

You know, if you’re one person at a larger company, yeah, you wanna get that executive buy-in. So how can you bring like your personal passion to bear on that conversation? So kind of along those lines, what’s your advice to folks who wanna use their skills to make a positive impact in the world? You know, where to go from just like, I am a single person with all this passion.

 

I think at the end of the day, community kind of encompasses everything that I want to say about that. For me personally and us as a business, that’s woven into everything that we do. But I think being able to partner with like-minded companies or find other professionals that are working for purpose-driven companies.

 

We have a local nonprofit called Activate Good. They’re the ones that actually put on that a case for good series. And they have a triangle businesses for good summit coming up and it’s every year and it’s businesses and professionals that work at businesses that are trying to do good and really figuring out, you know, what are things that we can collaborate on? How can we make each other better? How can we really amplify what other people are doing?

 

So I think really finding ways to partner or work with or, you know, engage with others in the community that have the same values or doing the same things that you want to do. And then some people that maybe are doing something a little different that you can learn from and that, you know, maybe you get really excited about and that’s something that you want to do. And then, you know, your list gets a little bit longer. But I think that really finding other people to connect with and network with is kind of

 

We’re all about collaboration here at Lulu and I always get sayings wrong, but you know, like the rising tide lifts all boats and really not being gatekeepers of information and really focusing on education and the value and the why behind things. And that goes for us as a publishing platform and helping creators and businesses learn how to publish and sell more books or that’s about, you know.

 

Lali Szumowski (41:03.284)

us helping out partners and working together. Because at the end of the day, I think that’s what really makes us better, makes the world better. So I’d say community and partnership for sure.

 

Yeah, I feel like that’s one of the things that has become clearer and clearer as I become like more of an adult human child. It’s like you can’t do it all by yourself and that, you know, like your connections do matter. Like you can’t do everything in a silo or you can, but the impact is so limited. It’s contained within the silo. So to hear, you know, that Lulu’s out there really trying to make these connections then…

 

Yeah.

 

Karli Petrovic (41:45.292)

and not only share knowledge, but learn from others. Like that’s a powerful give and take that, you know, anyone can appreciate. And so, you know, Lulu does a lot with books, obviously, a self-publishing platform. Are there any books or even documentaries or just general thought leaders in sustainability that have inspired you and the company at large?

 

100%.

 

Lali Szumowski (42:07.894)

Yeah, so I will, I guess I can kind of speak to both, thought leader Jessica Yinka Thomas is somebody in our local community. She’s actually a Lulu author. She was the person that got us connected to the NC State B Corp Clinic and they helped us get certified. So that clinic is at NC State University and there’s students that get matched with organizations.

 

companies that are trying to either just improve their social environmental impact or actually trying to get B Corp certified. And so they have a program where you can apply and that is how we actually got B Corp certification in 2016. And that was an amazing program. Being able to work with the students was also really building out that team of help. so she helps.

 

run that program. She does a lot of stuff in the community, but she is just a wonderful person and human and resource for businesses that are trying to use business as a force for good. And she really cares about sustainability and she’s just been a great resource. So just somebody local in the community that I am very much inspired by. And then we also have another Lulu author, Melanie Vandeveld. She has a book called Lead Like a Genius.

 

And it is all about how B Corps are all encompassing. it’s, we, know, thinking, we start by thinking about sustainability, but really thinking about all of the different aspects and areas of impact that having a B Corp certification, how that all works together and that holistic view and how being a B Corp certification is actually a competitive advantage for your company and how it is actually

 

doing good for your business as well. So I would say those are two people that come to mind in a book as well.

 

Karli Petrovic (44:08.854)

Nice, nice. Yeah, that’s amazing. So now are there any kind of upcoming projects or anything that is going on at Lulu that you would love to share with listeners and just along these lines of being regenerative and making a difference?

 

Sure. Let’s see. We have a lot of events every year. We just got back from London Book Fair. We are going to Flavor Media Summit coming up. It’s a food blogger conference. And then we have our own event, CEX, in August. That is Content Entrepreneur Expo. So for us, you

 

going to events and that is one way that we love being out in the community and really connecting with people and talking to people and learning how we can support creators and authors and entrepreneurs and businesses. How can we support them in growing their business and getting them the freedom that they want to create and grow? And so that is something I’m really excited about. We have a lot more events coming up than that, but that is one thing that we’re really excited about and our way of being able to really connect.

 

with people that are trying to use books as a way to monetize their content and grow their businesses.

 

So now where, other than Lulu.com, which we’ll send everyone to, where should customers go to connect with you guys online?

 

Lali Szumowski (45:39.118)

I would say LinkedIn, again, kind of with that community aspect and around kind of other B corporations and things that we are involved in locally. I think that is a great platform that we would love to connect to with you on.

 

That’s perfect. Okay, Lully, is there anything else that you want to add or think is important to say on this topic that we didn’t cover in our conversation? you know, statistics or anything that just you feel like you want to share before we go to our tree planting?

 

I think that was pretty much everything. This was a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.

 

Yeah, thank you. And thank you for all your preparation and for sharing the perspective not only of the company, but of like a single person who cares about this kind of stuff. I think that’s important for people to hear too. So, you know, as listeners of this podcast know, we have kind of a partnership with One Tree Planted where we like to plant trees and we like our guests to…

 

pick where, you know, and do a little bit of this together. So I’m going to share my screen, but while I’m doing that, you and Lulu have selected to plant these trees in Appalachia. So I would love to hear about why, as we kind of just look at the website here a little bit.

 

Lali Szumowski (47:05.57)

Yeah, I absolutely love that you do this. I think this is really great. And again, I went to the site and got overwhelmed by all of the different amazing projects that are going on. So it definitely was hard to pick, but we wanted to do something close to home, near and dear to our hearts being out here in North Carolina. And our CEO, Kathy Henschen, she lives out in Brevard. So again, we just wanted to do something that was close to our home here.

 

Amazing. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for, you know, joining me, for picking a wonderful place to plant trees and for sharing all your knowledge. I appreciate you being here. And thank you, you know, again, for just giving us such a full picture, because I think it’s easy to look on someone’s website and say like, they have this or they’re doing that. But…

 

Yeah.

 

Karli Petrovic (48:02.424)

to really hear kind of, you know, a little bit like to be gross about it, like how the sausage is made is, I think important. People need to know that this isn’t like, this was the easiest thing ever. Anyone can do it, right? There’s some dedication there, so.

Yeah, no, thank you. And I think it’s great too for people to understand that you don’t have like B Corp certification while that’s great. And I do believe that every business should have B Corp certification. At the end of the day, there is so much that you can do on a smaller level or tiny ways that you can impact the climate or the environment or have that social impact on a personal level or at a business level as well. And it doesn’t have to be everything all at once.

Well said, well said. So I wish for everyone to visit lulud.com to learn more about what you guys are doing and how people can potentially publish their own zines and books and anything else they want really, because it’s extensive. But I’ll also ask everyone to visit peacefulmedia.com slash podcast to get show notes and find additional episodes as well as to listen to the one on the zine and others.

Thank you again, Lali, and thank you all for listening.

Thank you for tuning in to our podcast marketing for what matters. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, Google or Pandora. Love the show? Leave us a review and follow us on social media at Peaceful Media to stay up to date about new episodes. And as always, thank you to this earth for giving us all we’ve ever needed. See you next time.